DE Lower – Saturday, 4.10.10

Me, Matt, David Green, and Tyrone
Today was really for Matt. It’s his last formal training session before the TSC next Saturday. I was thinking DL with bands made perfect sense for him, and we haven’t done them in forever, so it worked out nicely.
Ty is an Olympic sprinter, so especially on speed DL, he keeps up with me fine.  He is the real deal in terms of frame and fast twitch.  He is the perfect deadlifter, long arms and legs, slim torso, sick grip, and God’s grace of fast twitch.  Tom got him like 2 years ago I think, and this is a gentelman we are expecting to see in 2012.
David was going to do a different workout anyway, and he said his back was bothering him, so he cut out TBDL and went with lots of Dowel DL into high suitcase DL, SLDL, and a circuit of 1-leg bridge, Quad Leg Raises, and Tall Kneeling Hammer Curls.

DL (JS platform, Okie bar, barefoot, plates propped to even with the platform, 1 micro double looped)
Matt got his work up to 175 for triples  (max 335, so very nice place to settle in)
Ty and I got up to 275 3×3, 315 1×3, 365 3×3
–The brand new micromini gave a good pull through the top.  Didn’t measure with the hook. First time in a while everything really stayed speed work. No typical speed work progressing into stupid heavy.
–Triples with the Okie Bar got a callous off.

Matt’s assistance:
SLDL, Landmine, Rollouts
Ty’s assistance:
GHR, Landmine, Rollouts, Sprints

I went in with Steve do some Z stuff.
I’ll certainly admit that I have very little understanding of the pass/fail values of the tests and assessments, but I’m sure Steve’s confident he’s getting information that he needs.
The tests were mainly eye and cervical positional grading vestibular preferences. There’s definitely something there. If I have my eyes or neck in a certain position, I clearly demonstrate better resisted motion.
The stuff he is doing is incredibly discriminatory to the nervous system, and in this particular approach today exclusive to the vestibular system.
I will put the drills into my warmup. They make no sense to describe them, but basically my vestibular system likes my eyes closes and looking right with by body in relative right rotation.
I was discharged after that, so I was done.  I contemplated the Battling Ropes, but the 2 weeks of Phase 4 told me not to worry about it.

  • April 10, 2010

Leave a Reply 7 comments

Don Reinhoudt Reply

Hi, Charlie.

I noticed the inclusion of tall kneeling hammer curls in the work that you mentioned for David. Were these performed kneeling specifically because of the back bothering him, in order to provide extra protection against hyperextending the lumbar spine and also to get a training effect while reducing the overall load used/that would need to be stabilized. Or I am completely missing the mark here. Just curious.

Thanks for any feedback.

-Don Reinhoudt

Charlie Reply

Don – It’s an honor to have you reading. You can clear the blown smoke when I am done, but not often enough do we thank those that have come before us.

Today’s session was obviously in group, and this is @ Thomas Phillips (Senior RKC) Fit For Life gym. He usually calls the shots, but he is away, so I am doing the programming for the guys we actually train with.
These are all advanced lifters and training for strength and fitness. We do not do much movement training @ Tom’s.

So Dave was supposed to do high TrapBar DL for 5s, but when he said his back was tweaked from messing with the dog, we scrapped those and just stuck with suitcase and SLDL.
To get him some more work capacity, I kept him in primitive patterns with less spine risk. We benched and did a ton of tri’s on Friday, so I liked curls, and I liked the tall kneeling to absolutely limit hyperextension but also limit hip flexion. Standing, you can allow the hip flexors to slack in a shortened position with the accommodations of the knee and ankle. Tall kneeling does not allow this. Closing the chain at the flexed knee leaves you 2 choices: tall spine or crouching to your heels. Curling with your heels to your butt is silly awkward, and we use this proprioception to be in a less provocative but also corrective position.

And I probably could have just said yes, but I like explaining how the blueprints to the house are made.

Thank you again for reading, sir.

Don Reinhoudt Reply

I’m almost embarrassed to be thanked when it is such a privilege to even be able to stop by here and avail myself of what you so generously post. Chalk another one up to my observation that some of the absolute best always seem to be the most humble and gracious ones out there.

p.s. I like blueprints, and since it’s no exaggeration to say that 1 percent of what you know may be more than I ever know, I am happy as can be to take it all in.

Thanks again for the feedback. It is beyond appreciated.

Arthur Lange Reply

Hi, Mr. Weingroff. As Don noted above, it is a true privilege to be able to stop by your website, so let me pass on due praise and thanks to you before I as a question related to your answer above.

The point you made about performing those curls from a kneeling position seems like one of those subtle things that appears so simple that it is easy to appreciate what an impact it can have.

My question is whether a strict focus on keeping the glutes squeezed while in standing, and not allowing any of that slack you spoke of to occur, is almost on par with the kneeling position, or if it is going to be a case of apples to oranges. I don’t go crazy with curls, but I still perform a small volume of one sort or another on a regular basis, and I always focus on bracing my midsection and squeezing my glutes as if trying to crack a walnut (sorry for the image, hah, hah). Between that and always trying to crush the implement I am using, I have always felt strong in this movement, even while remaining very upright and strict with the movement.

Now while I have used a tall kneeling position for various things, particularly anti-rotation cable exercises, I had never tried curling from that position. Basically this was my very long-winded way of asking if exhibiting a very upright posture and not allowing for any hip and knee flexion, nor any lumbar hyperextension is roughly on par with performing the movement from a kneeling position.

I almost feel silly writing so much simply to ask you a curling question, so hopefully you’re not laughing too hard at me right now 😉

Thanks again for taking time out to read my question.

Charlie Reply

Arthur – You can accomplish pelvic stability in regular stance, but for folks with limitations, the flexed knee adds another level of safeguard. The flexed knee creates passive insufficiency in the rectus femoris since it is flexed @ the knee and with a strong glute contraction, it is trying to extend @ the hip. This “feel” is the proprioceptive input we are looking for to cue for the tall spine.
DB Curls really aren’t the issue; you can do any upper body move in this position.

As far as your cuing, I am good with the grip, and I am good with the glutes. But I would prefer you not aggressively contract the abs. This can lead to what is called a high threshold strategy where you use your outer core (rectus abdominus, obliques, erectors, etc.) when in cases they aren’t needed, and the inner core is needed.
Think golf. You swing wildly and powerfully, yet there is no vicious abdominal contraction. This is what we are looking for, so when there is a huge load, the outer core is there when you need it.

Arthur Lange Reply

Thanks for the heads up, Charlie. Duly noted about being careful not to use the outer core as a high threshold strategy in a situation like that. And the gold swing analogy was a great way to drive that point home to me.

Sam.Leahey@gmail.com Reply

“But I would prefer you not aggressively contract the abs. This can lead to what is called a high threshold strategy where you use your outer core (rectus abdominus, obliques, erectors, etc.) when in cases they aren’t needed, and the inner core is needed.
Think golf. You swing wildly and powerfully, yet there is no vicious abdominal contraction. This is what we are looking for, so when there is a huge load, the outer core is there when you need it.”

Charlie, LOVE what you said above. Is this reasoning applicable to nearly everything/exercise that are not “high loads” (1-5RM’ish)? If so, i think the lightbulb just went off in my head regarding this whole High Threshold Strategy idea. . .

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