Shoulder Post-Rehab

Have one questions: Dips are non provacative? I agree with the rest.

Chris – When we look at dips, the arm is closer to the zero ABD position. I hate dips, and I do not use them, as there is not a risk reward there, but I am classifying these movements by position, not potential end result.

Thanks Charlie for those progresions. I agree completely except dips,also thx for explanation about them.
I just would like to ask you about inverted row pack (do you mean moving just from scapulae?) and also don’t know what is body pull?
and last one 🙂 do you use in programing ,,0abd,, bent over arm extensions? I found them quite good tolerated and great for lats when overhead puling is problematic.

Thanks for your time

Charlie,

Is the unfavorable risk-reward from dips related more so to sloppy performance by most trainees, or is it essentially par for the course by the exercises very mechanics and the injury/postural history of most people?

I’ve used them for a long time and never had shoulder issues (knock on wood, and I absolutely recognize that my lack of problems in this area could be in spite of my use of dips), but your statement on their unfavorable risk:reward makes me wonder if dropping them and sticking with other routes of training the same type of qualities would be a better bet. Oftentimes I will sub out dips for weeks at a time in favor if board presses.

Hi, Charlie. I’m just curious what your own approximate definitions of wide and narrow grip pull-ups are, since I know that this can vary a bit between coaches. Do you have any rules of thumb in this regard?

Tomas – Good call with the straight arm extensions. I would put them in middle-provocative dynamic, but they would be more remedial as the direction is returning to non-provocative.
I have not used them in rehab or athletes, but I highly recommend them for bench press specific training.

Dan – I think when you do dips even correctly, there a very limited base of support for the entire body going through the anterior shoulder. There is nothing wrong with it in terms of the Joint by Joint, but I think the load and potential to rely on the shoulder capsule and very elongated pectoral muscles is not worth what you get out of it vs. alternatives.

If it’s working for you, and it’s something you enjoy, the worst of it may be something down the road. I am not ready to tell you never do dips again, especially if you like doing them. I would say they should be the first to go if you start running into any shoulder or neck issues.

Hal – Via hand grips for pull-ups, I would go with the below. These are just arbitrary and relative to what kind of bar you have to pull to.

Neutral shoulder width to wide
Supinated shoulder width (can’t really go much wider for chin-ups)
Pronated grip
–Narrow = shoulder width
–Moderate = arms @ ~135 ABD
–Wide = as far as the bar would allow
–Super Wide = as far as angled bar would allow

Charlie – Great podcast! I am working with wrestlers, however I have this particular wrestler who injured his shoulder during the previous wrestling season and doing MMA. I am aware in wrestlers or MMA Athletes shoulder injuries are pretty normal. I took him through the FMS to see the various imbalances, etc… I noticed he had good shoulder mobility, however when he squatted I noticed he moved to the injured shoulder side. Therefore, I gave him some progessions to try and balance both sides when he squats. As a wrestler they need to tumble, etc… So is it not wide to have him do tumbling? He was able to do the tumbling forward and backward, however I told him do not do the side tumbling because of his shoulder. Its been two weeks and the shoulder has not bothered him. So, what steps should I take? Should I actually have a highschool athlete see a corrective specialist/physical therapist? It isnt recommended by the physician, however I would like to know how to handle this particular wrestler and others that may have the same injury (past or present).

Kelvin – Thank you for the good words.

Rule of thumb is that if what you are seeing is honestly non-painful, go in and try to correct it with bands, exercises, etc.

As far as tumbling, I think 2 weeks of pain-free function is a fair allowance to get back into some progression. Pain-free dysfunction is about risk. If you still see the squat problem, you have increased risk. It may not be the worst idea to get another set of eyes to help this young man out.

If your intuition and Screen smells smoke, and this sounds like the case, tread lightly.

Charlie; Thanks for all your insight and assistance, even an old coach like myself can partake of your knowledge and enthusiasm

Thanks

A little late to hear this one but it was a GREAT ONE.

As always Thanks Charlie!

Charlie, super late here – curious for an explanation of your recommendation of push press before strict press?

Thanks for the great stuff!

Push Press requires ownership of a static stabilization strategy from a faster moving bell. I want you to stabilize a bell heavier than you can push on your own.

Charlie, one question.

What’s your opinion for how long it usually takes after RC impingement/tear surgery to perform non-provocative static exercise like kb deadlift?

Always depends. Maybe immediately if it doesn’t hurt and no compensation.

Thanks for the progressions Charlie. Great stuff!

what would be the normal scapula/shoulder position for farmer’s walk/carrying things to the side. And things to watch out for in progressions?

Just hold on and let the shoulders and scapulae hang. If you’re carrying something heavy enough, this is self-managed.
In using bells in the rack, the humerus should be close to the body as possible and no scap retraction. Always be wide like a cobra.